ladymirth: (one with the universe)
[personal profile] ladymirth
“They fuck you up, your mum and dad.

They may not mean to, but they do.

They fill you with the faults they had

And add some extra, just for you.


But they were fucked up in their turn

By fools in old-style hats and coats,

Who half the time were soppy-stern

And half at one another's throats.


Man hands on misery to man.

It deepens like a coastal shelf.

Get out as early as you can,

And don't have any kids yourself.”

- Philip Larkin.

Now compare that with this post.

We're fucked up people, Philip and I.  

(no subject)

Date: 2009-06-17 09:40 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] skund.livejournal.com
Heh. One of the reasons I've been a member of http://www.vhemt.org/ for years.

(no subject)

Date: 2009-06-17 03:46 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ladymirth.livejournal.com
Wow.

That takes non-anthro-centricism to a whole new level. o_O I've been thinking about it for HOURS.

I dunno. I've always felt that the world was overcrowded as it is and the sensible thing would be for people to leave race, religion and egotism aside and just adopt orphans from wherever in the world instead of procreating just fr the sake of outmoded ideas about blood and heritage. But then again, I think the urge to reproduce is not just an evolutionary imperative; it also ties in with the human need to leave an imprint of themselves behind, some sort of legacy that will grant them some vague sembalnce of immortality or at least, longetivity.

I think the idea that we must voluntarily subject ourselves to extinction implies that we accept that our whole existence is insignificant and meaningless in the grand scale of things. Which we are, but acknowledging it would scare most people shitless.

But that's not the point is it? I mean, you don't have to reproduce to raise a kid. And NOT raising a kid if you have the resources and the disposition when there are so many of them suffering unwanted in the world just because you might inflict them with different psychological problems than they might otherwise have seems...kind of silly to me.

It is part of human nature to be screwed in the head, anyway.

(no subject)

Date: 2009-06-18 02:05 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] skund.livejournal.com
Yeah, you've got to be an especially jaded misanthropist to get into it.

The urge to reproduce is the entire point of life. Everything from bacteria up is driven to produce offspring or die trying. I think the human desire for a legacy is just a romanticised version of animal instinct. Pretty hard urge to supress.

Sure, a lot of people in affluent countries could adopt orphans from the third world. But that's still making more kids with our stupidly large western ecological footprint; more people to use resources we don't have and living an unsustainable life.

There's no way we can get people to change their life to be sustainable. Hell, even the biggest climate change activists still live in nice houses in the 'burbs and jetset around the world. I guess VHEMT is a way of saying "There is no solution to these problems, so we're just going to try not to add to them."

That doesn't even begin to cover the human crazy. On a personal level, I'm a third generation woman on my mum's side who doesn't like children and doesn't get on with their own mother. Having the chance to break that cycle is kinda... liberating.

I think you summaried it well. Human nature is totally about being screwed in the head.

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